Weirdly you see the opposite, people who would very much be considered outside of normal politics by most people get the respect in mainstream publications. Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, founder of the Taliban being called an "austere religious scholar" is a good example.
“Note that violators of the taboo are rarely consistent in their disregard for convention. They speak ill only of their political enemies, while taking great offense if their allies suffer the same insult in return. Don’t mistake this for a general rejection of stuffy convention. Something much more aggressive is at play. Something that reflects poorly on us and on our times.”
Enjoyed the article. While it’s true Trump doesn’t respect political norms, I have to point out that most of the examples of him disrespecting the recent dead are people who personally smeared and attacked him and tried to put him in jail. It usually isn’t people he just politically disagrees with. For example Ruth Bader Ginsberg he was more respectful towards, despite being a liberal. It still counts as insulting the dead of course, but it seems different from the ideologically motivated young activist insulting Ann Widdecombe. Unless I’m just failing to think of examples of Trump doing that as well.
There are some people who we can just agree are bad. Hitler springs to mind. Jimmy Saville. I’m quite content to talk badly about them despite them being dead. Anne Widdicombe was a nasty person by any standard. I don’t see why that fact should be overlooked or dismissed because she died.
I certainly never encouraged anyone to hurt anyone else. One would expect that to be a given in any reasonable discourse. And no glee was expressed regarding her death either. Simply, I recorded the disgraceful inhumane things she did and stood for. The harm and damage she caused to many thousands of people, how ideologically driven she was via her warped political and religious views. AW was a malign and draconian presence in British public life. She’ll be remembered for her xenophobia, and her absolute commitment to chaining women to beds while they give birth. And she a supposed Christian. All of this it is totally reasonable to include in an assessment of her personal life and contribution to
Public life, considering she made herself extremely publicly visible, indeed she reveled in her fame/notoriety. So I’m not actually sure what your complaint is? Are you saying that once someone dies it is no longer appropriate to consider their actions while alive? That’s ridiculous, and certainly not good enough.
Beating a 70 something year old lady to death in her home because she is "nasty" is not something that should be encouraged.
There's a difference between being honest about the reality of someone's life posthumously and expressing schadenfreude and glee in their death. Expressing 'unpopular' political opinions and actually doing the work of politics in a liberal democracy is not remotely in the same realm of harmful as being a pedophile or a war criminal. You just proved Louise's point.
Weirdly you see the opposite, people who would very much be considered outside of normal politics by most people get the respect in mainstream publications. Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, founder of the Taliban being called an "austere religious scholar" is a good example.
Scott Alexander noted this sort of phenomenon in 2013 - https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/if-a-clod-be-washed-away-by-the-sea-europe-is-the-less/ and hypothesized a solution the following year, in one of his most celebrated pieces: if Western rightists hate Islamists, and Western leftists harbor more hatred for Western rightists than for Islamists, Western leftist can become pretty cagey about speaking ill of Islamists for understandable game-theoretic reasons: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
Wow, might be one of your best Louise. We should be way more respectful when people pass away.
“Note that violators of the taboo are rarely consistent in their disregard for convention. They speak ill only of their political enemies, while taking great offense if their allies suffer the same insult in return. Don’t mistake this for a general rejection of stuffy convention. Something much more aggressive is at play. Something that reflects poorly on us and on our times.”
No it reflects poorly on THEM, not us.
Excellent! I am very disturbed that so many people are being so rude and cruel.
Enjoyed the article. While it’s true Trump doesn’t respect political norms, I have to point out that most of the examples of him disrespecting the recent dead are people who personally smeared and attacked him and tried to put him in jail. It usually isn’t people he just politically disagrees with. For example Ruth Bader Ginsberg he was more respectful towards, despite being a liberal. It still counts as insulting the dead of course, but it seems different from the ideologically motivated young activist insulting Ann Widdecombe. Unless I’m just failing to think of examples of Trump doing that as well.
There are some people who we can just agree are bad. Hitler springs to mind. Jimmy Saville. I’m quite content to talk badly about them despite them being dead. Anne Widdicombe was a nasty person by any standard. I don’t see why that fact should be overlooked or dismissed because she died.
I certainly never encouraged anyone to hurt anyone else. One would expect that to be a given in any reasonable discourse. And no glee was expressed regarding her death either. Simply, I recorded the disgraceful inhumane things she did and stood for. The harm and damage she caused to many thousands of people, how ideologically driven she was via her warped political and religious views. AW was a malign and draconian presence in British public life. She’ll be remembered for her xenophobia, and her absolute commitment to chaining women to beds while they give birth. And she a supposed Christian. All of this it is totally reasonable to include in an assessment of her personal life and contribution to
Public life, considering she made herself extremely publicly visible, indeed she reveled in her fame/notoriety. So I’m not actually sure what your complaint is? Are you saying that once someone dies it is no longer appropriate to consider their actions while alive? That’s ridiculous, and certainly not good enough.
Beating a 70 something year old lady to death in her home because she is "nasty" is not something that should be encouraged.
There's a difference between being honest about the reality of someone's life posthumously and expressing schadenfreude and glee in their death. Expressing 'unpopular' political opinions and actually doing the work of politics in a liberal democracy is not remotely in the same realm of harmful as being a pedophile or a war criminal. You just proved Louise's point.
Respect for life, dead or not; 13 million abortions since 67, the innocence of young girls being groomed and euthanasia.
Gleefully embracing the death of someone you politically disagree with shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.