The more progressive one is, the more impossible it must be to be happy. You're rejecting every form of enjoyment human instincts have developed over the millennia, and all that remains is religious devotion to a contrarian ideology. A feeling of moral superiority can only get you so far.
Certain people do benefit from it in certain ways, which involve using and harming others. The husband in this situation is probably enjoying life, lol
It explains why people can put up with cities filled with homeless drug addicts, crime, and uncollected garbage. The opposite is a product of The Man. Small price to pay for both progress and the discomfort of those you truly hate just for existing
Please! I do understand very well the excesses that came out of the 60’s as you describe them. They were a backlash against the paralyzing conservatism of the post WWII culture. There was a kind of boundary that resulted in “don’t trust anyone over 30” thinking. I was baby boomer born in 1946. We were kids.
There was a context.
There were extremes that resulted in situations as described in this book, but most of us took the positives and explored, experimented with the alternatives to our (mostly middle class) upbringings. Yes, extreme ideologies tend to eventually destroy themselves, including progressive ideologies, but progressivism in itself is not the devil….and I think “the Man” is still an apt label for male oppression right now.
I wasn't alive in the '60s, but my impression of the social change in that decade is it wasn't just a rejection of the uptight '50s lifestyle, but also an exploration of different ways of living, thinking, and finding meaning in one's life. Turn on, tune in, drop out, etc. In contrast, the current social movement seems to be only defined by what they are against. In their view, everything is terrible, everyone is racist, and so on. When you view the world in such a way, how can you not be miserable?
Being progressive means advocating for greater equality, increased rights for minorities, environmental protection, and regulation of large corporations amongst other things. It is about personal liberty and is the only true liberalism.
All this bollocks about ‘the man’ is just a straw man.
Lindy West has certainly boxed herself into a corner with her beliefs, but her beliefs are not what progressive politics is all about.
I would have agreed with that statement, and self-identified as "progressive" until around 2014. That's also the year FIRE defines as the beginning of cancel culture. One thing that happened in 2014 is that Mozilla co-founder Brendan Eich was forced out when it was discovered he had donated to an anti-gay marriage ballot initiative in 2008. (Keep in mind that Obama was also publicly against gay marriage in 2008.) Eich never shared his personal views and vowed to continue Mozilla's domestic partner benefits, but employees and other tech leaders could not handle the possibility that he might have some wrongthink in his head, and he had to go. It was at that point I realized progressivism had evolved into an intolerant, illiberal ideology.
I feel so bad, and yet have very little patience for, people who reject traditions simply on principle. I can't imagine how many women at this point have spent the best years of their lives rejecting housewifery, marital sex, certain hobbies, and the basic pursuit of happiness in the name of progressive theology.
What a horrible feeling it must be, to someday wake up and realize you've wasted your 30s and your 40s in service of ideas that literally kept you from being happy.
I mean... life isn't that complicated. You take good care of your health, you find one person to mate with, and you build a simple life. Anyone who tells you those things are wrong is trying to sell you something. We've done them for millennia because they produce happiness.
Being one of those persons and knowing many others I can share some light. You reject things that hurt you or your family members in your formative years. If you had a father, who failed to protect your mother (or worse) you reject the idea that it's good and safe to be dependent on a man. If the women around you constantly complained how marriage and kids ruined their careers and health, you grow up to fear being a wife and a mother. If families around you brake down constantly, you learn to value your independence above all else. And constant mental programing through all the media channels doesn't help either, mildly put. Believe it or not, people in their twenties do not have the ability to deeply self reflect and question predominant social narratives. And when they do learn it - it's often too late. So there you go, we are people too, not some sort of entitled aliens.
Healthy people have no idea how good they have until they get sick. Likewise, people who grew up in healthy families or at least had healthy guidance in broader community, for example at school, have no idea how baffling life can be for those, who had no such luck. That's what I want to say to anyone, who goes around saying things like "life isn't that complicated" or giving advice after the fact. Sure, people are not helpless even in most difficult circumstances and we should always stress that, but on the other hand, the broken ones are rarely broken for no reason. It would be nice to see some consideration on that front too. Especially in conservative / Christian circles. Because without that kind of nuanced thinking, it's just an exercise of pridefuly congratulating each other for how good everyone's doing on the "right side" of society.
These are fair points that I appreciate. I would just point out that no one is getting healthy guidance in the modern American public school system. Progressives like Lindy have been (mis)educated in our schools to turn out believing exactly the things that she believes. That is another reason why a seemingly intelligent woman like her winds up insisting on destructive choices, believing all the while that it’s completely normal and desirable to spend her whole life medicated / in therapy, not because she’s doing life wrong, but because pAtriArCHy.
And Pharma and the medical community are invested in them not doing well. So. They keep taking drugs with side effects like lots of antibiotics and bad “booster shots”
Last sentence hits hard. Why does it seem like there's a theme with progressive men being absolute douchebags? I can't understand a man who twists his wife's arm into accepting him cheating, then to top it off she ends supporting him with her writing(It didn't sound like they have children, so I presume that's not his or the girlfriend's job.) Do progressive guys like him really believe their bad behavior is an "identity ?" Do they just think because they have the "right" opinions on a bunch of "women's issues " , they can get away with treating actual women in their lives like garbage? Or are they just narcissists who use whatever ideology to cover their narcissism?
it's actually a brilliant strategy. If she objected to his behavior in the 2010s, he'd remind her that she was being a white racist oppressor. That was a checkmate in the 2010s. If she objects to his behavior now, she's being a white racist TERF oppressor, which is a checkmate in the 2020s. I look forward to seeing how this sir/ma'am will use the language of social justice for his/her manipulative ends in the 2030s.
There's a reason so many progressive people are on meds for anxiety or depression or both. It's hard to be happy and build a life when the framework through which you understand the world is basically a policy of negation. ("I'm anti-racism, anti-ableism, anti-anti-trans, anti-capitalism, anti-colonial, anti-yadda yadda yadda.") They're afraid to stake a claim because what if the lifestyle they choose is suddenly decreed offensive even if its offensive parameters didn't exist six weeks ago?
"Ms. West’s book brings the nature of progressivism into sharp focus. The ideology emerged in the 1960s as an explicit rejection of the ideas of the political mainstream. Progressivism is not for anything. Rather, it is against a whole lot of things—Judeo-Christianity, monogamous marriage, the nuclear family, capitalism, gender norms, racial stereotypes and more. Whatever the white American patriarch of the 1950s supported, progressivism opposes. It’s an exercise in patricide."
Modern progressivism is the political equivalent of the “dating what daddy hates” trope that we see in movies. It reminds me of a Modern Family episode in which Haley (the early-20s daughter) is pretending to date a sleazy, irresponsible jeans salesman in order to spite Phil (her dad), who was pissed off at her for getting kicked out of college.
Many of today’s young women have been taught to hate themselves. And when you’re in an environment where everyone around you is trying to induce feelings of shame, it takes an exceptionally strong young woman to reject the condemnation and blame they are getting from everyone around them. Once you’ve psychologically destroyed someone, made them hate and feel ashamed themselves for their immutable characteristics, it becomes easy to manipulate them. You can convince them to do or say almost anything if it makes them feel like they can distance themselves from the shameful person they used to be.
This comment could have been written in 1956, but there would have been nowhere to publish it because no one talked about it. Women were put in mental institutions by their husbands or male relatives for complaining about the mental abuse, or for “nervous breakdown”. This was the male privilege and women had no legal right to object. Study some history or talk to your grandmother.
Good point. I've been thinking about pride and shame and I know we have pride everywhere and your bit made me see the shame. It's still where it's always been, with women, like woke Afghanistan
Ms. Perry is right about Lindy West's problems but she misdiagnoses entirely what 'progressivism' is and where its origins lie. Progressivism's modern origins lie in the 1930s New Deal and civil rights eras and, traditionally, a focus on state interventionism to achieve economic and social goals of equality and fairness. What Lindy and her bubble live within isn't progressivism in the sense that it's generally practiced, it's really more of a postmodern turn in political thought attenuated through Tumblr leftism. Though they would likely self-identify as progressive, I think it's pretty important to be precise and not use one person/subculture's weirdness as emblematic of an entire politics. That makes about as much sense as pointing to the Duggar family as emblems of American conservatism.
Progressiveism is the belief that you are superior to everyone who ever lived before. It is the project of tearing down every fense ever built, Chesterton be damned.
The more progressive one is, the more impossible it must be to be happy. You're rejecting every form of enjoyment human instincts have developed over the millennia, and all that remains is religious devotion to a contrarian ideology. A feeling of moral superiority can only get you so far.
Certain people do benefit from it in certain ways, which involve using and harming others. The husband in this situation is probably enjoying life, lol
It explains why people can put up with cities filled with homeless drug addicts, crime, and uncollected garbage. The opposite is a product of The Man. Small price to pay for both progress and the discomfort of those you truly hate just for existing
Cities also have amazing cultural treasures and great food. It’s a trade off.
Why does it have to be?
Please! I do understand very well the excesses that came out of the 60’s as you describe them. They were a backlash against the paralyzing conservatism of the post WWII culture. There was a kind of boundary that resulted in “don’t trust anyone over 30” thinking. I was baby boomer born in 1946. We were kids.
There was a context.
There were extremes that resulted in situations as described in this book, but most of us took the positives and explored, experimented with the alternatives to our (mostly middle class) upbringings. Yes, extreme ideologies tend to eventually destroy themselves, including progressive ideologies, but progressivism in itself is not the devil….and I think “the Man” is still an apt label for male oppression right now.
I wasn't alive in the '60s, but my impression of the social change in that decade is it wasn't just a rejection of the uptight '50s lifestyle, but also an exploration of different ways of living, thinking, and finding meaning in one's life. Turn on, tune in, drop out, etc. In contrast, the current social movement seems to be only defined by what they are against. In their view, everything is terrible, everyone is racist, and so on. When you view the world in such a way, how can you not be miserable?
Sandra, I bet you still wear a mask in public whilst reminiscing about fighting the man telling you what to do.
A complete misdiagnosis of progressive politics.
Being progressive means advocating for greater equality, increased rights for minorities, environmental protection, and regulation of large corporations amongst other things. It is about personal liberty and is the only true liberalism.
All this bollocks about ‘the man’ is just a straw man.
Lindy West has certainly boxed herself into a corner with her beliefs, but her beliefs are not what progressive politics is all about.
I would have agreed with that statement, and self-identified as "progressive" until around 2014. That's also the year FIRE defines as the beginning of cancel culture. One thing that happened in 2014 is that Mozilla co-founder Brendan Eich was forced out when it was discovered he had donated to an anti-gay marriage ballot initiative in 2008. (Keep in mind that Obama was also publicly against gay marriage in 2008.) Eich never shared his personal views and vowed to continue Mozilla's domestic partner benefits, but employees and other tech leaders could not handle the possibility that he might have some wrongthink in his head, and he had to go. It was at that point I realized progressivism had evolved into an intolerant, illiberal ideology.
Her beliefs are neoliberalism in fact. Which results in seeing eg sex as commodity. What Davies calls liberalism is social democracy.
I feel so bad, and yet have very little patience for, people who reject traditions simply on principle. I can't imagine how many women at this point have spent the best years of their lives rejecting housewifery, marital sex, certain hobbies, and the basic pursuit of happiness in the name of progressive theology.
What a horrible feeling it must be, to someday wake up and realize you've wasted your 30s and your 40s in service of ideas that literally kept you from being happy.
I mean... life isn't that complicated. You take good care of your health, you find one person to mate with, and you build a simple life. Anyone who tells you those things are wrong is trying to sell you something. We've done them for millennia because they produce happiness.
Being one of those persons and knowing many others I can share some light. You reject things that hurt you or your family members in your formative years. If you had a father, who failed to protect your mother (or worse) you reject the idea that it's good and safe to be dependent on a man. If the women around you constantly complained how marriage and kids ruined their careers and health, you grow up to fear being a wife and a mother. If families around you brake down constantly, you learn to value your independence above all else. And constant mental programing through all the media channels doesn't help either, mildly put. Believe it or not, people in their twenties do not have the ability to deeply self reflect and question predominant social narratives. And when they do learn it - it's often too late. So there you go, we are people too, not some sort of entitled aliens.
Sounds like you should have concentrated on rejecting what your family did.
Healthy people have no idea how good they have until they get sick. Likewise, people who grew up in healthy families or at least had healthy guidance in broader community, for example at school, have no idea how baffling life can be for those, who had no such luck. That's what I want to say to anyone, who goes around saying things like "life isn't that complicated" or giving advice after the fact. Sure, people are not helpless even in most difficult circumstances and we should always stress that, but on the other hand, the broken ones are rarely broken for no reason. It would be nice to see some consideration on that front too. Especially in conservative / Christian circles. Because without that kind of nuanced thinking, it's just an exercise of pridefuly congratulating each other for how good everyone's doing on the "right side" of society.
These are fair points that I appreciate. I would just point out that no one is getting healthy guidance in the modern American public school system. Progressives like Lindy have been (mis)educated in our schools to turn out believing exactly the things that she believes. That is another reason why a seemingly intelligent woman like her winds up insisting on destructive choices, believing all the while that it’s completely normal and desirable to spend her whole life medicated / in therapy, not because she’s doing life wrong, but because pAtriArCHy.
And Pharma and the medical community are invested in them not doing well. So. They keep taking drugs with side effects like lots of antibiotics and bad “booster shots”
Youn man you are deeply deluded.
Last sentence hits hard. Why does it seem like there's a theme with progressive men being absolute douchebags? I can't understand a man who twists his wife's arm into accepting him cheating, then to top it off she ends supporting him with her writing(It didn't sound like they have children, so I presume that's not his or the girlfriend's job.) Do progressive guys like him really believe their bad behavior is an "identity ?" Do they just think because they have the "right" opinions on a bunch of "women's issues " , they can get away with treating actual women in their lives like garbage? Or are they just narcissists who use whatever ideology to cover their narcissism?
Yes.
it's actually a brilliant strategy. If she objected to his behavior in the 2010s, he'd remind her that she was being a white racist oppressor. That was a checkmate in the 2010s. If she objects to his behavior now, she's being a white racist TERF oppressor, which is a checkmate in the 2020s. I look forward to seeing how this sir/ma'am will use the language of social justice for his/her manipulative ends in the 2030s.
There's a reason so many progressive people are on meds for anxiety or depression or both. It's hard to be happy and build a life when the framework through which you understand the world is basically a policy of negation. ("I'm anti-racism, anti-ableism, anti-anti-trans, anti-capitalism, anti-colonial, anti-yadda yadda yadda.") They're afraid to stake a claim because what if the lifestyle they choose is suddenly decreed offensive even if its offensive parameters didn't exist six weeks ago?
They can’t afford to believe in anything.
"How does a funny, intelligent, affable woman end up in such a mess?"
We don't have any evidence that Lindy West is any of those things.
Right? I wondered for a second who the author was talking about.
She’s capitalizing on her misery. But of course she hates capitalism.
"Ms. West’s book brings the nature of progressivism into sharp focus. The ideology emerged in the 1960s as an explicit rejection of the ideas of the political mainstream. Progressivism is not for anything. Rather, it is against a whole lot of things—Judeo-Christianity, monogamous marriage, the nuclear family, capitalism, gender norms, racial stereotypes and more. Whatever the white American patriarch of the 1950s supported, progressivism opposes. It’s an exercise in patricide."
Modern progressivism is the political equivalent of the “dating what daddy hates” trope that we see in movies. It reminds me of a Modern Family episode in which Haley (the early-20s daughter) is pretending to date a sleazy, irresponsible jeans salesman in order to spite Phil (her dad), who was pissed off at her for getting kicked out of college.
I tried, but it's very difficult to feel sympathy for someone so deliberately stupid.
How about for someone who would probably want you dead if she found out that you don't support her politics?
Many of today’s young women have been taught to hate themselves. And when you’re in an environment where everyone around you is trying to induce feelings of shame, it takes an exceptionally strong young woman to reject the condemnation and blame they are getting from everyone around them. Once you’ve psychologically destroyed someone, made them hate and feel ashamed themselves for their immutable characteristics, it becomes easy to manipulate them. You can convince them to do or say almost anything if it makes them feel like they can distance themselves from the shameful person they used to be.
This comment could have been written in 1956, but there would have been nowhere to publish it because no one talked about it. Women were put in mental institutions by their husbands or male relatives for complaining about the mental abuse, or for “nervous breakdown”. This was the male privilege and women had no legal right to object. Study some history or talk to your grandmother.
Good point. I've been thinking about pride and shame and I know we have pride everywhere and your bit made me see the shame. It's still where it's always been, with women, like woke Afghanistan
I appreciate your humor!
Anytime. I have much dark humour in these times
Ms. Perry is right about Lindy West's problems but she misdiagnoses entirely what 'progressivism' is and where its origins lie. Progressivism's modern origins lie in the 1930s New Deal and civil rights eras and, traditionally, a focus on state interventionism to achieve economic and social goals of equality and fairness. What Lindy and her bubble live within isn't progressivism in the sense that it's generally practiced, it's really more of a postmodern turn in political thought attenuated through Tumblr leftism. Though they would likely self-identify as progressive, I think it's pretty important to be precise and not use one person/subculture's weirdness as emblematic of an entire politics. That makes about as much sense as pointing to the Duggar family as emblems of American conservatism.
He’s not the problem, he’s an asshat but he’s not the problem, she is. She made the choices that have led to this relationship being what it is.
Why don't espouse the revolutionary idea that the problem could be... her?
Mic drop ending! Another barn burner by the talented Louise. Thank you
Homie just doesn't look happy here 🤣😂
It might not even be about his partner, he just looks not enthused about being there.
he’s not even hot, and if i were to see them on the street together i would not think there is much of a differential
For the 1000th time, it is not polyamory, it is a humiliation kink called cuckqeaning.
Progressiveism is the belief that you are superior to everyone who ever lived before. It is the project of tearing down every fense ever built, Chesterton be damned.